Three. Thousand. Dollars.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 01/15/2020 at 18:42 • Filed to: druglopnik

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79

My son takes this injectable medication, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (dupilumab), for his eczema. It’s one of those new-fangled   !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! medications that you see advertised on TV so much. It’s a great drug, and works very well. It’s also very expensive.

One box of two syringes costs about $2,000, or $1,000 per shot. Last year, we had a copay of $85, which was covered by the drug manufacturer. With prior approval from the doctor , the insurance covered the rest, so we paid nothing. Starting January 1, the copay for this medication went from $85 to $1,000. So this is basically OOP $3,000 worth of meds sitting on my counter. Fortunately, our insurance (BC/BS through my wife’s employer) is covering the balance of the copay, so we still pay nothing. Our insurance sent us a list of drugs and increased copays, one of which, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (treatment for Hepatitis C) , has a copay of $7,500. That’s a copay . If you don’t have supplemental coverage, you don’t get your meds. Or you go broke.

I get it. The drug companies need to make their R&D money back. But do they have to make it all at once?

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 18:49

2

You want to know the best part? Antibodies are stupid easy to make. Take your antigen you want to make an antibody against, inject it into an animal, remove some blood from said animal, spin it down and your antibodies form a nice little white layer. Boom, profit

RPM esq. > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 18:49

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I’d be interested to see the full list of drugs with increased copays—assuming there’s a way to anonymize it, would you mind sharing it?

dogisbadob > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 18:54

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How close are you to Canada? :p

Vote for someone that can stop Trump, and vote down-ballot too

ttyymmnn > RPM esq. 01/15/2020 at 18:55

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Gimme a second. My scanner is acting up. 

ttyymmnn > RPM esq. 01/15/2020 at 18:58

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MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 18:58

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I wonder what something like that costs in Mexico. I’m not even joking I know a lot of people do that if they have the opportunity, even Canadians with some stuff. I’ve seen lots of people on my flights with stuff like that. Might not help you but I have a hard time rationalizing the cost of a lot of meds 

ttyymmnn > dogisbadob 01/15/2020 at 18:59

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Texas close. Although I saw a headline a couple of weeks ago that said the Trump administration is trying to ease access to Canadian drugs. 

ttyymmnn > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/15/2020 at 19:00

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For now, I’m not paying anything OOP, so there’s no crisis. My mom used to live in Tucson, and would go into Mexico regularly to get diabetes medications for her sister at significantly reduced costs. 

Monkey B > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:02

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my mom takes something that costs $2600 for a 30 day supply, her copay would be $700. It’s the only one of it’s kind, no generic, and she has to have it. I’m on application 2 for assistance. It’s insanity.

facw > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:03

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Ouch. As I’ve noted before I’m on a very expensive drug, but copays are manageable

Still that would be $1226/week without the insurance. The good news is that there are at least alternatives that in theory should work about as well, and the primary alternative (Humira) I think is even more expensive, so presumably they’d cut that first. It would be scary to lose all the options though (and a $ 1000 copay, would effectively be that), last time I was off the meds I could barely walk after a month off the drug.

In any event, it’s pretty clear this process is broken. I’d love to have Warren or Sanders’ single payer healthcare plan to force reasonable prices, but really there are a ton of things government can do to keep down prices even without that leverage. Something needs to be done.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 01/15/2020 at 19:04

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So what you’re telling me is that soon in the future we’l l be seeing DIY antibody recipes on Pinterest?

ttyymmnn > Monkey B 01/15/2020 at 19:08

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Let’s see, rent, or medication? 

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:09

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Patent runs out in 2029.

(mild politicks) One benefit from nationalized healthcare, other than the 2 year wait to have a knee replaced or the 8 hour wait to get into Emergency , is that the Government has buying power, and also the ability to review profits of pharma patent holders to provide a bit of a check on drug costs (because its in the n ational interest) . Looks like Canadians pay ~$940 CDN per syringe which is ~$710USD.

Americans get hosed on pharmaceuticals .

ttyymmnn > facw 01/15/2020 at 19:09

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Something needs to be done.

Amen. But as long as politicians are allowed to take as much money as they want from the drug industry, where is the incentive?

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:10

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I have two good friends who both have type 1 diabetes. It runs in their family. The costs to them can be astronomical. And that’s WITH insurance. Because of these sky high prices, they’re basically handcuffed to their jobs because of the insurance. Even switching jobs can be a risk for them.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:12

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My dad had to be treated for Hep C last year, I think the whole treatment was >$30,000 for the drugs. 

ttyymmnn > facw 01/15/2020 at 19:13

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This class of meds is clearly the future. But how many people will go without before they become affordable, if they ever do? I had to get prior approval for the insurance to cover Symbicort, an inhaler that has been around for thirty years. When I told my doctor that I needed his help getting it covered , he got pissed off—at the drug company. He said, “It’s gouging, plain and simple.” He actually has people on his staff who do nothing but process PA requests. 

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:14

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Hot Take: Single-payer pharmaceutical coverage makes more sense than single-payer physician coverage.

ttyymmnn > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/15/2020 at 19:17

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My wife works for the University of Texas system, and we have been beyond fortunate that her insurance has always been, and continues to be, quite good. But costs are still going up. 

RPM esq. > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:18

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Thanks! Very interesting.

ttyymmnn > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/15/2020 at 19:18

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Jesus, that’s ridiculous. My mom came to visit for Christmas two years ago and we had to take her to the hospital because she was having chest pains. They admitted her and did all the tests etc. She was fine, but the bill would have been well over $15 ,000 if she didn’t have a Medicare supplement. It’s just insane. 

slipperysallylikespenguins > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/15/2020 at 19:22

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Well people already do at home experiments with making antivenoms. So it’s not a stretch.

Svend > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:24

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Is there a reason given for increasing the copay?

Sorry I don’t really know your system (lack of), so copay is the balance you have to pick up from what’s left over from having the insurance pay? 

facw > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:27

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Well there are a lot of voters who would like to not have to deal with high prescription drug prices. And while pharma lobbying is an issue, I’m not so cynical that I think it makes action impossible. Some candidates are obviously more likely to fight for action than others (I was pretty shocked last night to hear Buttigieg talking about his $250/month prescription cost cap as if that was a positive. It might be good to prevent prescription gouging at the ER, but most people with high prescription costs are treating chronic conditions and $3000/year is way more than many people can afford (that’s nearly 10% of the median pretax individual income in the US).

facw > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:29

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It bugs me immensely that literally every other developed nation provides healthcare more efficiently than us, and most of them provide better care overall as well, yet sticking with basically what we are doing now is treated as the responsible choice rather than the lunacy it is.

facw > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:31

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Hmm, my Enbrel is on there as well. If that’s an across the board BCBS change, I guess I should be happy that while I have BCBS, my prescription coverage is through Express Scripts instead.

facw > For Sweden 01/15/2020 at 19:35

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I think they both make sense, but I don’t think you are wrong, especially when most providers are traditional private practice operation that don’t have much leverage themselves. Though with consolidation in the industry, that might change as competition decreases.

facw > Svend 01/15/2020 at 19:52

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More or less. Here’s a breakdown of fees that come into play in our broken system:

Deductible: This is the amount you must pay before insurance pays anything (except for certain preventative care things). Expensive insurance plans like mine typically exclude prescriptions from the deductible, but cheaper plans make you reach the deductible (which is higher for cheap plans) before they’ll pay for prescription drugs. My plan has a $1000 deductible, which is low .

Copay: This is a flat fee that you pay for a service or drug. It usually varies by provider/drug. For example on my plan, I pay $20 for a primary care visit, $50 for a specialist visi t, and $200 for an ER visit. For prescriptions I pay something like $10 for preferred generics, $25 for non-preferred generics and $75 and $100 for preferred and non-preferred brand name drugs (note: even non-preferred drugs must be in the insurers formulary list for them to be covered)

Coinsurance: This is a p er centage cost that you must pay. My coverage generally only applies to things like surgery, imaging, and hospital stays, rather than approved prescriptions. It can be in addition to the copay, but mostly you get one or the other.

And of course you have you premiums which are the monthly fees you pay for coverage.

All of those but the premiums are limited by the out of pocket maximum which varies by plan. It is what it say, a limit on what you pay out. My plan is fairly expensive, but that buys me a $2500 out of pocket max, so things are constrained.

Also all of those fees are for in-network care. If you use a doctor or pharmacy outside the network, you will pay more, and have much higher limits (and you insurer might not pay at all). Also, just because you go to an in-network hospital doesn’t mean the provider you see will be in-network, so people can get 5-figure surprise bills if they aren’t careful (and it’s hard to be careful if you are unconscious  or in an emergency situation).

ttyymmnn > Svend 01/15/2020 at 19:55

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Because profit? I think it might have something to do with the changing healthcare laws in the US as Trump ditches Obamacare. 

Nibby > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:55

5

Fuck healthcare in the USA. Fuck big pharma and privatized healthcare. Universal free healthcare  should be a basic human right

M.T. Blake > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:55

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If people would stop suing every time a medication made them itch, things might come down in price. 

LastFirstMI is my name > ClassicDatsunDebate 01/15/2020 at 19:56

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I love the sleazy Allergan approach: sell the patent rights to a Native American tribe, which then licenses the rights back to Allergan. The goal was to use the tribe’s special legal protections to delay generic competition. Luckily it was shot down:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zacks.com/amp/stock/news/382125/allergan-falls-as-supreme-court-dismisses-restasis-litigation

ttyymmnn > facw 01/15/2020 at 19:56

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We use Express Scripts as well. I’m not sure what is going on with all of this, TBH.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 19:57

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My wife has been taking various biologicals (that’s what this class of engineered biomolecule drugs is called) for her RA for twenty years. A number of things need to be considered in the long trip to market:

These things are the result of decades of research in the private and public sector on the details of human biology. The drugs you see now are made possible by over 50 years of arduous work by countless laboratories (like mine), funded by your tax dollars and by drug company larders and VCs.

The financial outlay to discover, create, and usher these things through the FDA approval process to actually sale is monstrous and represents huge risk for the drug companies. For every drug you see that works as intended, so many more didn’t or failed to win approval.

If someone or someones dies as a result of one of these drugs, the lawsuits will not name the unknown researchers at universities or the grantees funded by the federal government. They will name the drug companies, exclusively. This means a huge war chest needs to be set aside for lawyers on retainer and class action suits (anyone remember Vioxx?) . This is on top of R&D.

Are the drug companies in this for profit? Yup. Will they gouge as much as they can while their patent holds out? You betcha. And they have to make as much as they can in that first 10 years or so, because when the patent runs out, they can no longer charge as much. I, myself, have created by own biological molecules to mirror how they make Enbrel for research use in my lab. I can’t sell it though. But if I want to after the patent expires, a company can makes its version and sell it (after it clears regulators hurdles, etc.)

I cannot say that drug companies are justified in charging all that they do, and I’m not trying to. They will surely charge whatever they can and damn the human consequences, as long as they are allowed to. Companies are amoral as a rule. If you don’t have good insurance, and you need one of these drugs, you’re screwed, and that’s not fair. We need stronger oversight and regulation of what companies can reasonably make off people’s desperate illness. I’m generally Republican in my economic philosophy, but the healthcare industry is one area where I break with Republican lawmakers. The insurance industry cannot be regulated solely by free market pressures because its success is fundamentally based on avoiding, as often as possible,  doing the very thing it is created to do. Also, collusion and implicit price fixing is the rule in the industry.

But there are some limited things you can do if your insurance (or lack thereof) leaves you out in the cold. Companies do have promotional and supplemental programs (as you mentioned above) that greatly reduce the cost of treatments from retail, usually in the form of coupon codes. There are also sometimes avenues to appeal for compassionate care. It’s not enough, but it’s something.

Chariotoflove > facw 01/15/2020 at 20:00

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The good news is that there are at least alternatives that in theory should work about as well,

That would seem be the case, but in reality, biology doesn’t work that way. For instance, Enbrel is a Tnf alpha receptor fragment that inhibits ligand binding to the receptor. Humira is a monoclonal antibody against the same system. They should work equally on paper, but they don’t in the clinic. Insurance companies try to funnel patients into the drug that costs them the least based on these rationales, but often one drug works but the other doesn’t or vice versa. Doctors need the freedom to take care of their patients, and the companies need to stop trying to practice medicine.

Svend > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 20:01

1

That’s insane.

My mum was on 12-13 different tablets a day, m y step-father is on eight or so.

Prescriptions in England are about £9 a time (free in Scotland), but you can take out a plan, either a three month plan or 12 month plan. The three month plan is £29.10 and the 12 month plan is £104, and that is all* medications paid for and delivered to your door prepacked in b lister packs.

How is this not a thing over there. The U.S. spends more on healthcare** than any other nation shouldn’t be bankrupting it’s population because of healthcare, that’s just stupid.

India has brought it in for 500million of it’s people.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-healthcare-modicare-narendra-modi-launch-ayushman-bharat-pm-jay-insurance-a8550526.html

https://www.ft.com/content/8b307c6e-e02e-11e9-b8e0-026e07cbe5b4

*there are certain drugs that aren’t on the plan but they don’t cost too much.

**as of 2017 it was USD$ 3.5 trillion which was 18 % of the countries GDP. More than twice what many other countries paid.

https://www.crfb.org/papers/american-health-care-health-spending-and-federal-budget

Chariotoflove > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 01/15/2020 at 20:02

1

Oh man I wish that were true in practice for all antibodies. Also, you’re describing the process for making polyclonal antibodies for research.  Drugs are humanized monoclonals.  That’s a lot harder and more expensive.

Discerning > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 20:03

3

“I get it. The drug companies need to make their R&D money back. But do they have to make it all at once?”

As someone who has worked finance for a pharmaceutical company, the answer is that they don’t. A newly released drug  may not break even for well over four years into its 10 year plan. And that’s assuming it is in a reasonably noncompetitive market. One such example was about $600 per bottle and lasted two months. That said - there are often many programs to help make drugs more affordable. That company offered several co-pay programs that often reduced the cost down to as little as $30 for some customers.

If you can’t find a co-pay program that works for that drug, you may want to identify a competitive option or look for a generic equivalent.

It looks like it will be a while before your drug goes LOE. I would ask your healthcare provider and insurance if there is a program that could help. If not, is there a decent equivalent?

All of the above said, I agree that pharmaceutical prices are insane. Many drug companies take advantage of consumers. I hope you can find a solution for that crazy price.

LastFirstMI is my name > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 01/15/2020 at 20:03

1

Of course, there is the pesky issue of completing a clinical trial for FDA approval, which usually costs >$100 million. This doesn’t  excuse the price gouging, but there are more costs than just a centrifuge and a pipette.

RPM esq. > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 20:04

1

Interesting that the five highest copays on here are all treat the same thing (hepatitis C) and are all made or “ authorized” by the same manufacturer.

Svend > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 20:05

2

trump is out to remove anything Obama had anything at all to do with, merely o ut of spite.

Many republicans are for Obamacare (even if they don’t like the name people have given it), but still suckle at the arse cheeks of the trumpie out of some ridiculous party thing. 

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > Chariotoflove 01/15/2020 at 20:08

1

Fair enough, I may have simplified it a bit to prove the point

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > LastFirstMI is my name 01/15/2020 at 20:09

0

Very true, pesky rules keeping us from killing people, what has this world come too!!

Svend > facw 01/15/2020 at 20:09

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That is quite something to get ones head around (and finances around). 

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 20:10

1

This is fucking absurd and has little to do with currently changing healthcare laws I feel. I’ve been a type 1 Diabetic for 33 years now. It has everything to do with a lack of laws and our country’s obsession with profit . In fact, the healthcare situation in the US has, at times, been the driving factor for me almost moving out of country a number of times the last 15 years.

I’m lucky though, in that I’ve had pretty good insurance for pretty much my whole life (as it’s obviously been a major job requirement in my adult life and growing up my parents always had good insurance ), so there have only been a few times I’ve been stuck with an obscenely large bill. That doesn’t mean, though, that I haven’t noticed the billed cost keep going up and up and up.

If there is one area that I personally think there needs to be an exponential amount of greater laws/oversight, it’s healthcare. As well as major investment for the betterment of the future, not profit, in competition and R&D.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/15/2020 at 20:12

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I’ve am Type 1, since the age of 2 (now 36) and what you said is 100% accurate. I’ve been handcuffed to some pretty shitty jobs that longer than I wanted to be because they at least offered good insurance. Even then, though, the costs can sometimes be fucking absurd. Just to stay alive!

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/15/2020 at 20:13

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I mean, it's already kinda true if you just change Pinterest to pubmed lol

facw > Svend 01/15/2020 at 20:23

1

Yeah, there’s some merit to the healthcare marketplace approach done under Obamacare, but from some work I’ve done in the field, and talking with co-workers about my company’s internal marketplace, I think there’s a big risk (probably too big) that people don’t understand what they are doing when buying health insurance and are going to make some potentially very costly mistakes. Much better to copy a country that is doing things well than try to massage the mess we have.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/15/2020 at 20:38

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I’ve already seen DIY genetic editing for the sake of dairy allergies.  It might be closer than you think.

facw > Chariotoflove 01/15/2020 at 20:42

1

The rheumatology fellow I saw was originally going to go with Humira but after discussing with his supervising doctor, they changed it to Enbrel. Not sure why, but it does at least seem to be effective for me.

fintail > Nibby 01/15/2020 at 20:59

1

It’s funny how close the US can be to a mature developed first world nation, yet so far away in other relatively basic aspects.

Nibby > fintail 01/15/2020 at 21:05

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That’s the price you pay for capitalism. The system works great for people who have connections and money. If not, good luck.

The more I learn about my country, economics, the government, and world affairs the further left I'm leaning

fintail > Nibby 01/15/2020 at 21:22

1

I’d even call this detached from capitalism - it is quickly heading for oligocracy, and a system where your position at birth determines everything. But I suppose that’s the endgame of unregulated capitalism.

The healthcare system (in terms of expense ) is arguably the greatest failure of American society.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 21:24

1

My wife is on a drug that costs $11k/mo. Over the holidays we randomly got a check from the insurance company for $6k. Long story short that was their agreed rate but they said the treatment center wouldn’t agree to it, even though we had a prior authorization that said they would. Turns out the treatment center had a billing error and sent the wrong bill. But I was sweating bullets for a day or 2 there until we got it straightened out.

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 01/15/2020 at 21:29

1

Thanks for the long reply. Knowing your expertise, I was hoping you would chime in. All of that is entirely understandable. But it’s still a crap ton of money for the average Joe. 

Nibby > fintail 01/15/2020 at 21:29

1

My parents are physicians. They absolutely loathe the healthcare system and have seen countless cases of patients not being able to afford it. Obviously you still perform procedures on them.

The complete lack of empathy for the every man really shows the US true colors

ttyymmnn > Discerning 01/15/2020 at 21:31

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Thanks for the inside answer. It helps to understand what is happening, but it doesn’t take away the sting. And, honestly, I’m not getting stung. I have insurance etc. and I’m not paying a dime. But there are many, many people who go without rather than live on the street.

fintail > Nibby 01/15/2020 at 21:33

1

And those patients could end up in medical bankruptcy, a very American concept. I can look at how American per capita expenses compare to other first world nations, then examine life expectancy and other health-related indices, and determine that something isn’t working. The middleman is taking an awful lot here.

There’s a saying to the effect that you can tell a lot about a society by how it treats its poor. Here we are.

gettingoldercarguy > M.T. Blake 01/15/2020 at 21:34

2

No, profits would just go up more. You’re thinking altruistically, but there are so many cases where lawsuits have no effect on the price increases (Pharmabro!?!?) t hat the lawsuit argument is mostly chaff.

Discerning > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 22:09

1

I couldn’t agree more

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/15/2020 at 22:20

0

That’s friggin nuts. 

Nibby > fintail 01/15/2020 at 22:31

1

we’re one of the few countries that tip service people because we don’t pay them enough... and you have the whole should taxi/uber/lyft drivers be full time debate... ffs people how blinded and ungrateful do you have to be?

when you’ve been brainwashed since birth to worship your country, its laws, its “values,” and taught to pledge allegiance to corporations and money instead of education and culture this is what you get

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 01/15/2020 at 22:32

1

It absolutely sucks. I told you how much I spent on healthcare last year, and I’m one of the lucky ones with a state funded plan. The average joe in this country would be shit out of luck. 

Chariotoflove > facw 01/15/2020 at 22:39

1

Not sure what criteria influence that initial decision. My wife did well on Enbrel for a few years. Humira didn’t work out as  well though when she tried it. Thank God you have something that is working.

Mid Engine > ClassicDatsunDebate 01/15/2020 at 22:54

1

The Canadian health care system is fucked, hospitals are triage zones and the wait times can be ridiculous. I took my son to a hospital a few years ago in Montreal, there was ONE doctor on duty overnight. Car accident patient comes in? Wait. We waited 16 hours to see a doctor. 

Want to see a specialist? Gotta get your primary to refer you, and in many cases there are no pri mary doctors accepting patients, you have to go to a walk in clinic and waste most of a day. Then, you can see a specialist who likely has four month wait times.

H owever the meds are very reasonably priced. I lived with the Canadian system for 48 years, the last ten years in the U.S. with a company plan. No co mp arison. That said, if I had to take pricey meds I’d drive to B.C. and buy ‘em there.

fintail > Nibby 01/15/2020 at 23:02

1

Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Syndrome (mis-attributed to Steinbeck, I think) is a hell of a disease , and it is a key component of American societal order . Far too many drones out there believe they are on the cusp of striking it rich, and that any type of change to the system which encourages social goods will undermine everything and create a Stalinesque gulag. Said drones keep their head in the sand regarding the often superior quality of life, if not that and standard of living, enjoyed by their counterparts in competitive nations. Said drones also vote against their own best interests in blind hopes everything will trickle down. We can see how well that has worked over the past ~40 years.

The only laws the “law and order” demographic care about concern abortion, immigration, marriage, defective tax policy, and the right to their boomsticks.

Nibby > fintail 01/15/2020 at 23:10

1

except prisoners of gulag were subject to up to 10 hour work days, max... and had 1 hour lunch breaks... which is better than many many places here... :P

these people don’t care about anything other than maintaining their happy go lucky lifestyles... i grew up in a pretty affluent area of long island and even in high school i would complain to peers about how they’re living in a bubble. we need to start tearing down barriers between classes and obsolete ideas, notions, and ignorance... (obviously racial and sexual ones too)

i’ve never told anyone this but i feel my entire life of 29 years i’ve been trying to overcome barriers that may or may not exist... (they could simply exist solely in my mind)... but i want to break them. i want others who feel the same way to break them too

fintail > Nibby 01/15/2020 at 23:21

1

Gulag residents probably received more medical care than many “free” Americans, too, and didn’t have to worry about endless debt or going broke to pay for it.

I didn’t grow up especially wealthy or needy, and I still feel like I was handed an awful lot compared to a lot of people out there, and I am thankful for it. I can’t imagine what it is like to be a trust-funder or supposed adult still receiving funds from family - and in my experience, said people often believe they are self-made and are doing it all by themselves.  For a nation that once prided itself on being egalitarian, I think that ideal is fading fast, if not already gone.   At best, when one old barrier is removed, a new one takes it place.

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 01/16/2020 at 03:38

1

what you need is socialism and a decent healthcare system

:D

DipodomysDeserti > M.T. Blake 01/16/2020 at 03:41

1

Well, I guess we all know Blake didn’t go to law, medical or pharmacology school. Drug rep?

M.T. Blake > DipodomysDeserti 01/16/2020 at 05:00

1

I wear a tin foil hat and yell and line  shaped clouds.

Nibby > fintail 01/16/2020 at 08:51

1

let’s start by removing old barriers and replacing them with permeable ones!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 01/16/2020 at 11:02

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Hey, so... Stef Schrader. I floated the idea to her of trying to find a job on campus while she continues to freelance (and to get hooked up with the FSAE team there as a staff advisor or something ). She seemed somewhat open to it. Never hurts to know someone with connections... If your wife would be game, you could mention it to Stef.

fintail > Nibby 01/16/2020 at 12:25

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Sadly, I would wager that the socio-economic chasm of today is less permeable than it was when the lucky generation was getting started.  Lots of economic mobility data out there, and much of it doesn’t look good for trickle-down land.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2020 at 14:19

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I’m not sure how much help she could be. She works for one of the deans of the School of Engineering, but doesn’t do any hiring for the department. Still, if you are in contact with Stef, she can drop me a line at my screen name at gmail.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 01/16/2020 at 14:23

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Gotcha - thanks.

Nibby > fintail 01/16/2020 at 15:37

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vote SCOOB/NIBBY 2020 and we will restructure everything. EVERYTHING.

fintail > Nibby 01/16/2020 at 16:40

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Probably couldn’t do any worse than most incumbents or candidates, and better than many or most.

Nibby > fintail 01/16/2020 at 19:31

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If it doesn't work out for us we'll hop on the Bernie train